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	<title>Comments on: How to observe Martin Luther King Day?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://davesmidlife.com/2006/01/16/how-to-observe-martin-luther-king-day/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://davesmidlife.com/2006/01/16/how-to-observe-martin-luther-king-day/</link>
	<description>Musings of a middle-aged guy waiting to see what he'll be when he grows up</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 22:15:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://davesmidlife.com/2006/01/16/how-to-observe-martin-luther-king-day/#comment-51</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jan 2006 06:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://davesmidlife.com/?p=13#comment-51</guid>
		<description>Dave,
I'm a little late in on this conversation.  Haven't had time to sit down to the pc for casual purposes all week.  But I wanted to make an observation about your concerns.

First off, I did not get MLK day off, but still celebrate the spirit of it.  I'm betting you don't jump and shout and hail the Spanish every Columbus Day either -- nor do you go to tht Toumb of the Unknown Soldier every Veterans' Day, even though it's within 10 miles of your house.

I don't think it makes you less of a person if you celebrate holidays in an attitude of relaxation.  I know for a fact you celebrate the 4th of July, because I have done it with you on the lawn of Vienna Elementary School a few times (guess you can figure who I am, if I'm not JLH).

So you celebrate the spirit of the patriots who founded our country and gave birth to the rights we now enjoy (albeit limited by the Bush Patriot Act).

I don't think its right for us, as middle class white suburbanites, to feel guilty for the racist injustices of others, regardless of what color they are.  There are racists on all points along the color line.

The best we can do, as Julie and Simran have said, is to make sure we don't, by action or inaction, teach the rising generations to judge others by the color of their skin.  And I believe that living by example, we can even teach a few old dogs such as ourselves to celebrate richly diverse and respectful lives.

MSH</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave,<br />
I&#8217;m a little late in on this conversation.  Haven&#8217;t had time to sit down to the pc for casual purposes all week.  But I wanted to make an observation about your concerns.</p>
<p>First off, I did not get MLK day off, but still celebrate the spirit of it.  I&#8217;m betting you don&#8217;t jump and shout and hail the Spanish every Columbus Day either &#8212; nor do you go to tht Toumb of the Unknown Soldier every Veterans&#8217; Day, even though it&#8217;s within 10 miles of your house.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think it makes you less of a person if you celebrate holidays in an attitude of relaxation.  I know for a fact you celebrate the 4th of July, because I have done it with you on the lawn of Vienna Elementary School a few times (guess you can figure who I am, if I&#8217;m not JLH).</p>
<p>So you celebrate the spirit of the patriots who founded our country and gave birth to the rights we now enjoy (albeit limited by the Bush Patriot Act).</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think its right for us, as middle class white suburbanites, to feel guilty for the racist injustices of others, regardless of what color they are.  There are racists on all points along the color line.</p>
<p>The best we can do, as Julie and Simran have said, is to make sure we don&#8217;t, by action or inaction, teach the rising generations to judge others by the color of their skin.  And I believe that living by example, we can even teach a few old dogs such as ourselves to celebrate richly diverse and respectful lives.</p>
<p>MSH</p>
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		<title>By: Simran</title>
		<link>http://davesmidlife.com/2006/01/16/how-to-observe-martin-luther-king-day/#comment-50</link>
		<dc:creator>Simran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jan 2006 15:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://davesmidlife.com/?p=13#comment-50</guid>
		<description>but wouldn't racism count as slander/embellishment of image as well... in the context of a group. Couldn't an ethnic group sue racists just like a brand can sue someone in the media for slander?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>but wouldn&#8217;t racism count as slander/embellishment of image as well&#8230; in the context of a group. Couldn&#8217;t an ethnic group sue racists just like a brand can sue someone in the media for slander?</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://davesmidlife.com/2006/01/16/how-to-observe-martin-luther-king-day/#comment-49</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jan 2006 16:58:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://davesmidlife.com/?p=13#comment-49</guid>
		<description>Sim,

What gets us in America is that good old first amendment.  Free Speech.  One of our most dearly held values.  As soon as someone starts deciding what is OK to think and say, you have the opportunity for some sort of repression.  So anyone can think anything, and SAY anything, but until they actually harm someone, they can go their merry way.

Now hate crimes, which are crimes motovated by bigotry of some sort, are becoming increasingly more serious in our law.  But anything that is short of a crime will always be fine. 

Julie</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sim,</p>
<p>What gets us in America is that good old first amendment.  Free Speech.  One of our most dearly held values.  As soon as someone starts deciding what is OK to think and say, you have the opportunity for some sort of repression.  So anyone can think anything, and SAY anything, but until they actually harm someone, they can go their merry way.</p>
<p>Now hate crimes, which are crimes motovated by bigotry of some sort, are becoming increasingly more serious in our law.  But anything that is short of a crime will always be fine. </p>
<p>Julie</p>
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		<title>By: sim</title>
		<link>http://davesmidlife.com/2006/01/16/how-to-observe-martin-luther-king-day/#comment-48</link>
		<dc:creator>sim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jan 2006 15:58:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://davesmidlife.com/?p=13#comment-48</guid>
		<description>oops: "they're all sweet &lt;B&gt;on&lt;/B&gt; the main page"</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>oops: &#8220;they&#8217;re all sweet <b>on</b> the main page&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: sim</title>
		<link>http://davesmidlife.com/2006/01/16/how-to-observe-martin-luther-king-day/#comment-47</link>
		<dc:creator>sim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jan 2006 15:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://davesmidlife.com/?p=13#comment-47</guid>
		<description>Of course there's positive and negative, that's everywhere. And you're completely right, there are all types of people here too. You have people who've never seen more of the world than their neighbouring city and some who've seen the world and still travel. I know of some people that might not be racists, but treat their employees badly and disrespect people. Problems are different in different countries and places.

I was just a little shocked that even today, racists exist in a country with such tough laws. I've heard of an American lady that sued McDonalds because her coffee was too hot. If one can do that, then why not sue the racists, that do more than just make hot coffee?

I was really shooken up when I read about the Neo-Nazi rallies and then after reading a few stories in Google News, went and visited their propaganda site. They're all sweet and the main page, but one click in and you find this page about how the continents with white people need to be rid of other-coloured ones and how the US and the EU must pull out their citizens, tourists and emigrants from "coloured" countries. And this isn't some story from the early 1900s or something. I read this in 2005! What the hell (excuse my language)! I really couldn't believe what I was reading.

I know that America is a great and beautiful country and would love to visit some day, thank you very much for the invite. I'll make sure to email you if I ever do visit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course there&#8217;s positive and negative, that&#8217;s everywhere. And you&#8217;re completely right, there are all types of people here too. You have people who&#8217;ve never seen more of the world than their neighbouring city and some who&#8217;ve seen the world and still travel. I know of some people that might not be racists, but treat their employees badly and disrespect people. Problems are different in different countries and places.</p>
<p>I was just a little shocked that even today, racists exist in a country with such tough laws. I&#8217;ve heard of an American lady that sued McDonalds because her coffee was too hot. If one can do that, then why not sue the racists, that do more than just make hot coffee?</p>
<p>I was really shooken up when I read about the Neo-Nazi rallies and then after reading a few stories in Google News, went and visited their propaganda site. They&#8217;re all sweet and the main page, but one click in and you find this page about how the continents with white people need to be rid of other-coloured ones and how the US and the EU must pull out their citizens, tourists and emigrants from &#8220;coloured&#8221; countries. And this isn&#8217;t some story from the early 1900s or something. I read this in 2005! What the hell (excuse my language)! I really couldn&#8217;t believe what I was reading.</p>
<p>I know that America is a great and beautiful country and would love to visit some day, thank you very much for the invite. I&#8217;ll make sure to email you if I ever do visit.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://davesmidlife.com/2006/01/16/how-to-observe-martin-luther-king-day/#comment-46</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jan 2006 13:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://davesmidlife.com/?p=13#comment-46</guid>
		<description>Actually, Sim, I reread my last post and  part of that came out wrong.  I have to say that the positive parts of America, are really everywhere.  It's a beautiful country that strives, and that also falls down a lot.  I sometimes think our biggest problem is to ignore our faults. 

Julie</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, Sim, I reread my last post and  part of that came out wrong.  I have to say that the positive parts of America, are really everywhere.  It&#8217;s a beautiful country that strives, and that also falls down a lot.  I sometimes think our biggest problem is to ignore our faults. </p>
<p>Julie</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://davesmidlife.com/2006/01/16/how-to-observe-martin-luther-king-day/#comment-45</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jan 2006 05:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://davesmidlife.com/?p=13#comment-45</guid>
		<description>Sim, it's not universal, it's not even the majority, but it is there.  If you ever come to the US, I hope you'll come visit with me, and see the positive parts of America.

America is BIG.  We  have just about every type of person here.  We have racists, and we have people of extraordinary hospitality and welcome.  We have insular americans, who never travel outside the borders of our county, and we have true internationalists, fascinated with the beautiful diversity of humankind.

I can't imagine India isn't similar.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sim, it&#8217;s not universal, it&#8217;s not even the majority, but it is there.  If you ever come to the US, I hope you&#8217;ll come visit with me, and see the positive parts of America.</p>
<p>America is BIG.  We  have just about every type of person here.  We have racists, and we have people of extraordinary hospitality and welcome.  We have insular americans, who never travel outside the borders of our county, and we have true internationalists, fascinated with the beautiful diversity of humankind.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t imagine India isn&#8217;t similar.</p>
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		<title>By: sim</title>
		<link>http://davesmidlife.com/2006/01/16/how-to-observe-martin-luther-king-day/#comment-44</link>
		<dc:creator>sim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jan 2006 04:34:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://davesmidlife.com/?p=13#comment-44</guid>
		<description>Right on. You can't change your mother or your grandmother, but you can definitely teach your children.

I can't believe it... can't they arrest racisits or something? It's horrible. And I feel horrible, because I might come across as a "black" person. My skin tone's not black, but a whole lot darker than white. This is ridiculous, I still don't understand it, what has skin colour got to do with anything???

I'm glad it's changing and I think it's high time that it does. You should judge another person, by their character and behaviour and not their skin colour and that's if you judge a person at all, which I'm not sure I would do.

&lt;a HREF="http://gatelessgate.net/simransblog" rel="nofollow"&gt;Simran&lt;/A&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right on. You can&#8217;t change your mother or your grandmother, but you can definitely teach your children.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t believe it&#8230; can&#8217;t they arrest racisits or something? It&#8217;s horrible. And I feel horrible, because I might come across as a &#8220;black&#8221; person. My skin tone&#8217;s not black, but a whole lot darker than white. This is ridiculous, I still don&#8217;t understand it, what has skin colour got to do with anything???</p>
<p>I&#8217;m glad it&#8217;s changing and I think it&#8217;s high time that it does. You should judge another person, by their character and behaviour and not their skin colour and that&#8217;s if you judge a person at all, which I&#8217;m not sure I would do.</p>
<p><a HREF="http://gatelessgate.net/simransblog" rel="nofollow">Simran</a></p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://davesmidlife.com/2006/01/16/how-to-observe-martin-luther-king-day/#comment-43</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jan 2006 15:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://davesmidlife.com/?p=13#comment-43</guid>
		<description>Sim,

The really sad thing here is that there are still many, many racists in the USA, and we still have a kind of cultural classism/racism that allows the gap between rich and poor to widen without us doing nearly enough about it.  

I find it deeply embarrasing, and I'm often dejected at how slowly we are moving to do what was clearly the right thing to do a half century ago.  

But it is moving.  My grandmother would leave a store if a black person was in there.  My mother always felt uncomfortable around black people, but rebelled against her mother and did everything she could to be warm to them, and to teach her children acceptance.  I work every day in a highly diverse office, where less than 25% of the employees are white, Anglo-saxons, and get to enjoy the richness of that environment.  

I do think teaching our children is the key to change.  You're not going to change a 50 or 60 year old racist.  You can, however, affect the thinking of your 6 year old.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sim,</p>
<p>The really sad thing here is that there are still many, many racists in the USA, and we still have a kind of cultural classism/racism that allows the gap between rich and poor to widen without us doing nearly enough about it.  </p>
<p>I find it deeply embarrasing, and I&#8217;m often dejected at how slowly we are moving to do what was clearly the right thing to do a half century ago.  </p>
<p>But it is moving.  My grandmother would leave a store if a black person was in there.  My mother always felt uncomfortable around black people, but rebelled against her mother and did everything she could to be warm to them, and to teach her children acceptance.  I work every day in a highly diverse office, where less than 25% of the employees are white, Anglo-saxons, and get to enjoy the richness of that environment.  </p>
<p>I do think teaching our children is the key to change.  You&#8217;re not going to change a 50 or 60 year old racist.  You can, however, affect the thinking of your 6 year old.</p>
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		<title>By: sim</title>
		<link>http://davesmidlife.com/2006/01/16/how-to-observe-martin-luther-king-day/#comment-42</link>
		<dc:creator>sim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jan 2006 09:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://davesmidlife.com/?p=13#comment-42</guid>
		<description>Also, Dave, I don't think it's about that one day. It's all about how we lead our lives. It's not about remembering him and his fight only on that one day. It's great that he has been acknowledged and this day, a national "day".... I just feel there's more to everything than the one "day" for it. I cherish my independence and my right to live in a free country every day, not just on independence day! I feel proud of my forefathers and admire their fight for the independence of our country. And I'm serious, I actually do.
So, don't be bothered that you didn't "commemorate" the day. It isn't the day that matters.....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, Dave, I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s about that one day. It&#8217;s all about how we lead our lives. It&#8217;s not about remembering him and his fight only on that one day. It&#8217;s great that he has been acknowledged and this day, a national &#8220;day&#8221;&#8230;. I just feel there&#8217;s more to everything than the one &#8220;day&#8221; for it. I cherish my independence and my right to live in a free country every day, not just on independence day! I feel proud of my forefathers and admire their fight for the independence of our country. And I&#8217;m serious, I actually do.<br />
So, don&#8217;t be bothered that you didn&#8217;t &#8220;commemorate&#8221; the day. It isn&#8217;t the day that matters&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: sim</title>
		<link>http://davesmidlife.com/2006/01/16/how-to-observe-martin-luther-king-day/#comment-41</link>
		<dc:creator>sim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jan 2006 09:28:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://davesmidlife.com/?p=13#comment-41</guid>
		<description>Yes, Ms. Holm, that is the key, to have the courage to change the things we find wrong and injust.

I think Mr. King was a great man. I still can't believe that the USA was literally a racist country half way through the 20 century. But also our country was under British rule till 1947. I guess that was the time of change and the time to take a stand against all that was wrong.

&lt;a HREF="http://www.gatelessgate.net/simransblog" rel="nofollow"&gt;Simran&lt;/A&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, Ms. Holm, that is the key, to have the courage to change the things we find wrong and injust.</p>
<p>I think Mr. King was a great man. I still can&#8217;t believe that the USA was literally a racist country half way through the 20 century. But also our country was under British rule till 1947. I guess that was the time of change and the time to take a stand against all that was wrong.</p>
<p><a HREF="http://www.gatelessgate.net/simransblog" rel="nofollow">Simran</a></p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://davesmidlife.com/2006/01/16/how-to-observe-martin-luther-king-day/#comment-40</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jan 2006 04:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://davesmidlife.com/?p=13#comment-40</guid>
		<description>I find it very interesting that your interpretations of things are somewhat different from my interpretations of the same things.  For the record, I should state that I got to the same church and sit in the same choir as you.  But I saw things yesterday somewhat differently. 

I too was bothered about the "musical choices" that our church has made, and the "one time" nature of the spirituals.  But I remember that previous choir directors did this music much more often, and I think it reflects the choices of the choir director, more than anything about the church. 

I also did not attend a special commemoration of Dr. King.  But I did listen to some of the special talk shows on my favorite radio station today.  One guest in particular was arguing that the commemorations, with their special music and all, really don't mean much to the memory of MLK.  What really matters is making a difference throughout the year.

That, I would argue, our church does with a vengence.  Sunday our Christian Social Action committee had a letter writing campaign going about the minimum wage.  They also had a session in their ongoing "Public Policy and Faith" series, which has addressed issues of justice and equality in a very active way.  Our youth is preparing to take a summer trip to the gulf coast area to help with hurricane rebuilding.  We've struggled with our "whiteness" and are as a church approaching an evaluation of becoming a "multicultural, multiracial" church - a change of self image that I think will be effective in the same way declaring ourselves "open and affirming" was a  half dozen years ago.

One person, one church can't do everything.  But I think we as a church do the best we can, in following MLK's lead, both in the area of race relations, and in the area of peace and nonviolence.  I think it's more than the choice of music.  

I think most important is that we are teaching our children that this stuff matters.  It's so  hard to change the dominant view of adult society.  But if you can change how young people think about these values, then you change the future.  That is what we hope.

Julie Holm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find it very interesting that your interpretations of things are somewhat different from my interpretations of the same things.  For the record, I should state that I got to the same church and sit in the same choir as you.  But I saw things yesterday somewhat differently. </p>
<p>I too was bothered about the &#8220;musical choices&#8221; that our church has made, and the &#8220;one time&#8221; nature of the spirituals.  But I remember that previous choir directors did this music much more often, and I think it reflects the choices of the choir director, more than anything about the church. </p>
<p>I also did not attend a special commemoration of Dr. King.  But I did listen to some of the special talk shows on my favorite radio station today.  One guest in particular was arguing that the commemorations, with their special music and all, really don&#8217;t mean much to the memory of MLK.  What really matters is making a difference throughout the year.</p>
<p>That, I would argue, our church does with a vengence.  Sunday our Christian Social Action committee had a letter writing campaign going about the minimum wage.  They also had a session in their ongoing &#8220;Public Policy and Faith&#8221; series, which has addressed issues of justice and equality in a very active way.  Our youth is preparing to take a summer trip to the gulf coast area to help with hurricane rebuilding.  We&#8217;ve struggled with our &#8220;whiteness&#8221; and are as a church approaching an evaluation of becoming a &#8220;multicultural, multiracial&#8221; church - a change of self image that I think will be effective in the same way declaring ourselves &#8220;open and affirming&#8221; was a  half dozen years ago.</p>
<p>One person, one church can&#8217;t do everything.  But I think we as a church do the best we can, in following MLK&#8217;s lead, both in the area of race relations, and in the area of peace and nonviolence.  I think it&#8217;s more than the choice of music.  </p>
<p>I think most important is that we are teaching our children that this stuff matters.  It&#8217;s so  hard to change the dominant view of adult society.  But if you can change how young people think about these values, then you change the future.  That is what we hope.</p>
<p>Julie Holm</p>
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